What are the intended uses of Groups versus Forms? Clearly, Forms are very specific types of shapes and can be edited in shape-specific ways. And Groups seem more for visual identification, although there's also the ability to select a Group, and I'm wondering how that fits into the overall drill writing workflow. When might I want to select a Group and what would I do after I selected it?
Any tips are appreciated, as I'm still learning the tool. For example, in your experiences:
When does it make sense to create permanent groups? When does it make sense to create set specific groups?
When does it make sense to have performers in multiple groups on a given page?
Is it typical that every performer on every page is in a Form (other than scatter/random forms), or are there times that having performers NOT in Forms makes sense or is easier to do?
Can Forms be used to help design some of the drill shapes? If so, what are the common scenarios?
thanks in advance!
Groups and Forms
Re: Groups and Forms
Hi bjindrich,
You mostly have the right idea. Forms are for getting performers to align to a specific shape that is well defined in terms of positioning and intervals. As you mentioned Forms are permanent on that particular set so you can set the performers then come back later and adjust the Form to suit your needs, and the performers are moved along with it.
Groups are more for identification and selection. As I've mentioned in a separate post, selection ordering is very important to the work flow in EnVision and groups maintain that ordering. So for example if I set up a selection in an order that I like but I'm not sure what to do with them yet then I could create a subset group so that I could work on something else for a while (which would lose my current selection) and then come back to the group I made and I could easily select them in the same order.
The most common scenario would be to simply disentangle sections in a merged set. For example, many times on impact sets several sections get merged in together for the sake of getting a desired effect. The easiest example would be the colour guard being intermixed with the band. In this situation it would be beneficial to have a permanent group for the colour guard, or one for the flag line and one for the weapon line, so that when you are writing out of the impact you can easily select all guard members and move them out of the way while you set up the next band set, or vice versa.
Permanent:
I'd say it makes the most sense to make permanent groups when you know that that group is going to be relevant in many sections of the show, such as Trumpets or Brass. I'd limit the number of permanent groups to something manageable, probably around 6 or 7 at max, especially if they overlap (have the same member in multiple groups). Otherwise their usefulness would get buried. I should also point out that you can select multiple groups by using the ctrl key (cmd on mac) when selecting them.
Set Specific:
The Set Specific groups are more useful when planning a specific set. If you know the trumpets and flutes are going to be in a form together then it might be useful to create a set specific group for them and come back to them later after organizing the rest of the performers.
Set Specific groups can also be useful to select performers on an adjacent page. If you are setting up a complicated set on page 6 but the performers are easier to get to on page 5 then it might be easier to create specific groups on page 5. Then you can select the performers on 5 and that selection will still exist when moving to page 6.
When does it make sense to have performers in multiple groups on a given page?
This is less common but you'd usually get this scenario when mixing permanent groups with set specific groups. In the above examples you could have the trumpets in a permanent group and also in a set specific group with the flutes. Beyond that there isn't much need to have the same member in multiple groups at the same time, though don't let that stop you if you come up with a good reason.
Is it typical that every performer on every page is in a Form?
I'd answer no to this question. Colour guard especially tend not to be in regular forms all the time and a small subset of them will often be intermixed with the rest of the band. You can also think of areas where the members are in "pods" of 3 or 4 and precise shapes are less of an issue. I'd say that for a larger group with a lot of movement (drill) Forms tend to become more important as a way of quickly organizing large sections of members but I definitely wouldn't expect every performer to be in a form at all times. Another example is the case where an entire shape of performers are moving together such as a moving or rotating block. Here I would set the shape with forms on the first set, then just move the performers on the second set. There is no need to create a separate form for them on the second page.
Can Forms be used to help design some of the drill shapes? If so, what are the common scenarios?
I am somewhat confused by this question simply because drill shapes are the exact intended use for forms. If I wanted to create a picture then I would start by laying out some combination of lines, curves, and circles and adding performers to them. You can make tweaks to them afterwards and the performers will move along with the form.
William
You mostly have the right idea. Forms are for getting performers to align to a specific shape that is well defined in terms of positioning and intervals. As you mentioned Forms are permanent on that particular set so you can set the performers then come back later and adjust the Form to suit your needs, and the performers are moved along with it.
Groups are more for identification and selection. As I've mentioned in a separate post, selection ordering is very important to the work flow in EnVision and groups maintain that ordering. So for example if I set up a selection in an order that I like but I'm not sure what to do with them yet then I could create a subset group so that I could work on something else for a while (which would lose my current selection) and then come back to the group I made and I could easily select them in the same order.
The most common scenario would be to simply disentangle sections in a merged set. For example, many times on impact sets several sections get merged in together for the sake of getting a desired effect. The easiest example would be the colour guard being intermixed with the band. In this situation it would be beneficial to have a permanent group for the colour guard, or one for the flag line and one for the weapon line, so that when you are writing out of the impact you can easily select all guard members and move them out of the way while you set up the next band set, or vice versa.
Permanent:
I'd say it makes the most sense to make permanent groups when you know that that group is going to be relevant in many sections of the show, such as Trumpets or Brass. I'd limit the number of permanent groups to something manageable, probably around 6 or 7 at max, especially if they overlap (have the same member in multiple groups). Otherwise their usefulness would get buried. I should also point out that you can select multiple groups by using the ctrl key (cmd on mac) when selecting them.
Set Specific:
The Set Specific groups are more useful when planning a specific set. If you know the trumpets and flutes are going to be in a form together then it might be useful to create a set specific group for them and come back to them later after organizing the rest of the performers.
Set Specific groups can also be useful to select performers on an adjacent page. If you are setting up a complicated set on page 6 but the performers are easier to get to on page 5 then it might be easier to create specific groups on page 5. Then you can select the performers on 5 and that selection will still exist when moving to page 6.
When does it make sense to have performers in multiple groups on a given page?
This is less common but you'd usually get this scenario when mixing permanent groups with set specific groups. In the above examples you could have the trumpets in a permanent group and also in a set specific group with the flutes. Beyond that there isn't much need to have the same member in multiple groups at the same time, though don't let that stop you if you come up with a good reason.
Is it typical that every performer on every page is in a Form?
I'd answer no to this question. Colour guard especially tend not to be in regular forms all the time and a small subset of them will often be intermixed with the rest of the band. You can also think of areas where the members are in "pods" of 3 or 4 and precise shapes are less of an issue. I'd say that for a larger group with a lot of movement (drill) Forms tend to become more important as a way of quickly organizing large sections of members but I definitely wouldn't expect every performer to be in a form at all times. Another example is the case where an entire shape of performers are moving together such as a moving or rotating block. Here I would set the shape with forms on the first set, then just move the performers on the second set. There is no need to create a separate form for them on the second page.
Can Forms be used to help design some of the drill shapes? If so, what are the common scenarios?
I am somewhat confused by this question simply because drill shapes are the exact intended use for forms. If I wanted to create a picture then I would start by laying out some combination of lines, curves, and circles and adding performers to them. You can make tweaks to them afterwards and the performers will move along with the form.
William